Legislature(2007 - 2008)CAPITOL 17

01/29/2007 03:00 PM House LABOR & COMMERCE


Download Mp3. <- Right click and save file as

* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
*+ HB 34 SALES BY WINERY LICENSEE TELECONFERENCED
Moved Out of Committee
*+ HB 49 GIFT CARDS TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
                                                                                                                                
HB 49-GIFT CARDS                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR OLSON announced  that the final order of  business would be                                                               
HOUSE  BILL  NO. 49,  "An  Act  relating  to credit  memos,  gift                                                               
certificates,  and gift  cards,  and to  unclaimed property;  and                                                               
making a violation of certain  gift card prohibitions an unlawful                                                               
trade practice."                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:28:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GATTO,   speaking  as  the  sponsor   of  HB  49,                                                               
explained  that  gift  cards  are   often  purchased  as  a  more                                                               
convenient gifting option.   He relayed an example  of an elderly                                                               
person  who chooses  to  purchase  a gift  card  for  his or  her                                                               
granddaughter.   These  gift cards  often have  a "dormancy  fee"                                                               
which is deducted monthly from  the remaining balance, as well as                                                               
an "activation fee" of $5 or  more.  Additionally, some cards may                                                               
include  expiration  dates  which  do  not  conform  to  Alaska's                                                               
unclaimed  property laws.   The  intent of  HB 49  is to  protect                                                               
consumers  from  unnecessary  fees, in  addition  to  maintaining                                                               
purchasing power.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
3:31:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAMRAS  voiced support  for HB  49.   He commented                                                               
that this issue affects all consumers, regardless of age.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:33:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  HILYARD,   Staff  to  Representative  Gatto,   Alaska  State                                                               
Legislature,  in  response  to  a  question  from  Representative                                                               
LeDoux, explained that  two different types of  gift cards exist.                                                               
The first is  an "electronic gift certificate,"  which contains a                                                               
"pre-loaded" amount,  and works in the  same way as a  paper gift                                                               
certificate.   The  second type  is a  "credit logo"  card, which                                                               
works  like a  credit  card.   These  are  issued  by banks,  and                                                               
contain  a  specified   amount  that  can  be   used  in  various                                                               
locations.   The  electronic gift  certificates do  not typically                                                               
have  activation or  dormancy fees,  which are  more common  with                                                               
credit logo cards.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  LEDOUX  offered  her understanding  that  prepaid                                                               
phone cards  also expire.   She inquired as  to why this  was not                                                               
included in HB 49.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR.  HILYARD replied  that the  focus was  gift cards,  therefore                                                               
this was not considered.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAMRAS stated that, as  a small business owner, he                                                               
receives at least one solicitation  per month offering to convert                                                               
paper gift  certificates to  electronic form.   While he  has not                                                               
chosen  to  pursue  this,  many  features  are  available.    His                                                               
business sold  $50,371 in gift  certificates during the  month of                                                               
December   [2006],  while   redeeming   $8,611   worth  of   gift                                                               
certificates.  He explained that  in January or February, this is                                                               
reversed,  with  more guests  redeeming  gift  certificates.   He                                                               
noted that the gift certificates  do not expire, although they do                                                               
have an "issuance date."                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GATTO, in  regard to  airline miles,  offered his                                                               
understanding that 50  percent are never redeemed.   He commented                                                               
that Alaska  Airlines does  not have an  expiration date  for its                                                               
mileage plan.   He surmised  that a  "fair amount" of  gift cards                                                               
are  never redeemed.    This, he  said, becomes  a  "gift to  the                                                               
seller."                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:39:46 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARDNER  pointed  out  that  under  current  law,                                                               
unclaimed  property belongs  to  the  state.   The  value of  any                                                               
unredeemed  gift  cards should,  she  said,  revert back  to  the                                                               
state.  The state would then  attempt to find the original owner.                                                               
She opined  that "this  never happens."   She suggested  that the                                                               
bill be amended to address this issue.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
3:42:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
RACHEL  LEWIS, Project  Coordinator, Unclaimed  Property Section,                                                               
Juneau  Office,  Tax  Division,   Department  of  Revenue  (DOR),                                                               
explained that the  state acts as a  custodian, holding unclaimed                                                               
property until  the owner or  the owner's  heir is located.   The                                                               
Unclaimed  Property  Section   ("Unclaimed  Property")  currently                                                               
holds the  following:  bank  accounts, un-cashed  payroll checks,                                                               
insurance  reimbursement,  stocks,  mutual  funds,  cashiers  and                                                               
travelers  checks,  and estate  distributions.    Last year,  she                                                               
said, there  was $58  billion in  gift card  sales in  the United                                                               
States, of  which an estimated  5-10 percent will never  be used.                                                               
In addition, around $8 billion  in gift cards will either expire,                                                               
be misplaced, or  will simply not be redeemed.   Approximately 45                                                               
percent  of adults  have  purchased gift  cards  within the  last                                                               
year, she  said.  There  are various reasons for  purchasing gift                                                               
cards, and they  are used for many different  types of purchases.                                                               
Currently,  she  said,  10  states   are  working  on  gift  card                                                               
legislation.   Last year,  19 states addressed  gift cards.   She                                                               
expressed  concern  with  removing language  from  the  Unclaimed                                                               
Property Act.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
3:45:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  OLSON  inquired  as  to how  much  unclaimed  property  is                                                               
recovered.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. LEWIS replied  that $58 thousand in unclaimed  gift cards has                                                               
been recovered.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX questioned why  the consumer would purchase                                                               
a gift card rather than simply writing a check.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. LEWIS replied that many consumers  find gift cards to be more                                                               
appropriate.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO  opined that giving  a child a gift  card is                                                               
easier, as the  parent does not have  to go to the  bank in order                                                               
to cash it.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  OLSON  asked  what  percentage   of  the  total  unclaimed                                                               
property were unclaimed gift cards.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS.  LEWIS  replied that  she  does  not have  this  information.                                                               
However,  the  current  year  has resulted  in  $6.6  million  in                                                               
unclaimed property  thus far.   She  added that  oftentimes, gift                                                               
certificates  are  "bypassed" during  the  reporting  cycle.   In                                                               
response to  an additional question,  she agreed that  gift cards                                                               
do  not  account  for  a   very  large  percentage  of  unclaimed                                                               
property.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
3:48:03 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
GLEN  PETERSON, District  Manager, CARRS/Safeway,  commented that                                                               
as  one  of  the  largest   sellers  of  gift  cards  in  Alaska,                                                               
CARRS/Safeway  recognizes  and  shares  the  states  interest  in                                                               
consumer protection.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:49:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JOE  GULLEY,  District  Manager,  CARRS/Safeway,  explained  that                                                               
CARRS/Safeway  issues its  own  gift cards,  as  well as  "third-                                                               
party" gift cards; however, no  "closed universe" gift cards with                                                               
expiration dates are  sold.  Gift cards are  generally defined as                                                               
"instruments that  contain value that  may be redeemed  for goods                                                               
and services sold  by the retailer, which includes  cards used by                                                               
the purchaser or  by another person to whom the  card was given."                                                               
Referring to  Section 3(f)(2)(A),  he expressed concern  that the                                                               
seller and  issuer of the  card would  not know whether  the card                                                               
was purchased for  personal use or as a gift  for another person.                                                               
In  addition, he  expressed concern  with the  new definition  of                                                               
"gift card"  versus the definition  of "gift  certificate," which                                                               
is removed  by the  bill.   In regard to  the new  definition for                                                               
"gift card," he  stated that this does  not address "re-loadable"                                                               
cards.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.  GULLEY  then  brought  attention  to  Section  3(e).    This                                                               
section,  he said,  does not  specify a  fixed amount,  and would                                                               
therefore  "impose a  substantial  administrative  burden on  all                                                               
parties  associated."    He  surmised that  this  is  taken  from                                                               
Massachusetts  state  law,  which  many states  have  used  as  a                                                               
reference,  including  Washington  State.     He  explained  that                                                               
currently, CARRS/Safeway follows the  Washington state law, which                                                               
requires that cash be refunded  at the request of the cardholder,                                                               
if the  remaining gift  card value  is less than  $5.   He opined                                                               
that  consumers   are  better  protected  when   state  laws  are                                                               
consistent.  If  the original card value was less  than $50, this                                                               
would require cash redemption at  lower levels than CARRS/Safeway                                                               
currently offers.   He stated that this  would "potentially harm"                                                               
the card holder.  Additionally,  he reiterated that the purchaser                                                               
of the card is "not necessarily  the final ... user of the card,"                                                               
which is not addressed in the bill.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR.  GULLEY expressed  concern regarding  the treatment  of paper                                                               
gift  certificates  in [Section  2(11)(A)],  in  addition to  the                                                               
"interplay"  between  the  aforementioned  section  and  [Section                                                               
2(11)(B)(iv).    Moving  on,  he  stated  that  HB  49  does  not                                                               
differentiate   between  "open   universe"   cards  and   "closed                                                               
universe" cards.  He explained  that "open universe" cards may be                                                               
redeemed at locations  other than those appearing on  the face of                                                               
the card, while  "closed universe" cards may not.   Other states,                                                               
he said,  have addressed  expiration date  issues with  regard to                                                               
the  difference between  the aforementioned  cards.   Finally, he                                                               
said  "Consumers ultimately  vote with  their dollars,  and if  a                                                               
business does not treat their  customers ethically and correctly,                                                               
they  will certainly  not get  very many  votes, and  most likely                                                               
will not be in business in  the future."  CARRS/Safeway, he said,                                                               
is available  to assist  with research  and interpretation  as to                                                               
how  these changes  may  affect  the end-user.    He stated  that                                                               
CARRS/Safeway wishes to protect the consumers of Alaska.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:54:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. HILYARD expressed willingness  to work with CARRS/Safeway and                                                               
address any concerns in order to "craft a better bill."                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR OLSON  stated his intention  to hold  the bill in  order to                                                               
allow any concerns to be addressed.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARDNER requested  to  see  Mr. Gulley's  written                                                               
testimony, in order to address specific concerns.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR.  GULLEY agreed  to  make this  information  available to  the                                                               
committee.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
3:56:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DAVID  DURRANT,  Vice  President  of Legal  Affairs  &  Corporate                                                               
Council, Black  Hawk Network, explained  that Black  Hawk Network                                                               
is a subsidiary of Safeway  which handles third-party gift cards,                                                               
in addition to  prepaid instrument distribution.   He stated that                                                               
any gift card which does not  have an expiration date or dormancy                                                               
fee,  will remain  open "for  the life  of the  card."   This, he                                                               
said,  is  one  concern  regarding   the  interplay  between  the                                                               
provisions mentioned by the previous  speaker.  He stated that he                                                               
is familiar  with the laws of  many states, and would  be willing                                                               
to work  with legislators to  craft a  bill which takes  the best                                                               
provisions  from each.    He  noted that  over  the 2006  holiday                                                               
season, abuse  of gift cards  was reported  by the press.   While                                                               
consumer  protection  is  important,  it is  also  important  for                                                               
consumers to have a satisfactory experience.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:59:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DURRANT,  in  response to  a  question  from  Representative                                                               
Ramras, stated  that the  90 percent rule  included in  Section 3                                                               
would  "tend  to be  administratively  burdensome,"  as this  may                                                               
require the  card issuer to  track the amount of  funds remaining                                                               
on the  card.   This would be  a challenge if  the card  was "re-                                                               
loadable,"  rather  than  having  a fixed  denomination.    "Open                                                               
universe" cards are oftentimes not  fixed denomination cards.  He                                                               
explained  that if  a card  does not  have a  fixed denomination,                                                               
this  would require  the  seller to  track  any additional  funds                                                               
"loaded"  on.   He stated  that the  $5 rule  which is  currently                                                               
applied  in Washington  State "protects  the  consumer well,"  in                                                               
addition to being "easy to administer."                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  RAMRAS stated  that  this is  more difficult  for                                                               
smaller  businesses,  adding  that  this may  become  more  of  a                                                               
problem  when  "trying to  reconcile  the  day's activity."    He                                                               
suggested that the  90 percent rule be removed or  a fixed dollar                                                               
amount be used.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
4:03:24 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  LEDOUX  inquired  as   to  whether  the  lack  of                                                               
expiration date would pose a problem to businesses.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DURRANT replied  that this  would not  be a  problem.   When                                                               
there is  no expiration  date, this liability  is carried  on the                                                               
books.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GATTO,  in  regard  to  the  90  percent  payback                                                               
requirement,  opined that  it  would be  "in  the merchants  best                                                               
interest" to  refund cards with  small percentages, as  these are                                                               
unlikely to  be redeemed.  He  asked if this would  be considered                                                               
beneficial.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
4:05:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DURRANT replied  that it  is possible  to do  "split-tender"                                                               
transactions.  He explained that  this allows the customer to use                                                               
the  remainder of  the  card  to make  a  partial payment,  using                                                               
another form  of payment  to make  up the  difference.   This, he                                                               
said, would  be the ideal approach.   He reiterated that  using a                                                               
fixed dollar amount would be preferable to a percentage.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO  clarified that the payback  requirement was                                                               
intended to help  the businesses by allowing small  amounts to be                                                               
"taken off the books."                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DURRANT, in  response,  explained  that if  a  gift card  is                                                               
purchased and  given as a  gift, there  would be no  mechanism by                                                               
which to identify  the holder of the card, until  it is presented                                                               
in a  store for  a purchase.   Therefore,  the business  would be                                                               
unable to refund small amounts until this occurred.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO  said "I'm  trying to make  it easy  for the                                                               
merchant  to zero  out a  card that  has too  little value,  that                                                               
might be carried  around in perpetuity, because no  one will want                                                               
to carry it around."                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAMRAS stated that  his business currently has $98                                                               
thousand  in gift  certificates on  the books.   This  number, he                                                               
said,  increases by  about $5,000  per year,  with 90-95  percent                                                               
redemption.   A  credit of  $60 thousand  was inherited  from the                                                               
previous   owner,   which   was    carried   over   because   the                                                               
aforementioned gift certificates do not expire.  He said:                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     We don't  want to redeem  a card that has  a fractional                                                                    
     amount left  on it.  We  want that guest to  come back.                                                                    
     ...Studies ...  show [that] people  ... no  matter what                                                                    
     increment they  have, ... are  going to spend  a little                                                                    
     bit more than the face value  of the [gift cards].  And                                                                    
     frankly, that's what the  business community wants. ...                                                                    
     And  if you  leave a  fractional amount,  then for  us,                                                                    
     it's a  little bit  like you're going  back out  with a                                                                    
     coupon.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:10:18 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
STEVE   CLEARY,  Executive   Director,  Alaska   Public  Interest                                                               
Research  Group (AkPIRG),  stated  that  HB 49  is  a "good  step                                                               
towards consumer  protection for  Alaskans."   He cited  a recent                                                               
Washington Post article, which stated  that almost $25 billion in                                                             
gift cards had been sold.   This article also pointed out various                                                               
problems with fees, many of  which were previously mentioned.  He                                                               
referred to a study by  the Montgomery County, Maryland Office of                                                               
Consumer  Protection,  titled "Gift  Cards  2006:   Retail  Cards                                                               
Continue  to  Improve  (with Prodding);  Bank  Cards  Still  Have                                                               
Problems," which  compares the various  types of gift  cards, and                                                               
stated that he  would forward this to the committee.   This study                                                               
shows that, in  general, stores have a better  policy than banks,                                                               
which  typically  have  fees.   The  following  fees  may  apply:                                                               
dormancy,  latency, administrative,  periodic  fees, and  service                                                               
fees.  He also pointed  out information regarding 18 other states                                                               
that  have   recently  passed   similar  legislation,   which  is                                                               
contained  in members'  packets.   He  said "I'm  excited to  see                                                               
Alaska  taking this  step,  and ...  it's good  to  see that  the                                                               
business community  isn't ... against  this bill."   He commented                                                               
that  while  some  areas need  further  clarification,  both  for                                                               
consumers  and  businesses,  the  basis  of  the  bill  is  "what                                                               
everybody wants."   If  consumers lose  money on  cards purchased                                                               
for a certain  value, regardless of the amount, this  will add up                                                               
to money that consumers should be receiving.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:13:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO inquired as to  whether gift cards that will                                                               
never be  used can  be given to  non-profit organizations,  to be                                                               
cashed in for the value of the card.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. CLEARY  replied that non-profits  often have  silent auctions                                                               
using donated  gift certificates,  although he is  unsure whether                                                               
these can be cashed in for the dollar value.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:15:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. LEWIS explained  that under the Unclaimed Property  Act, if a                                                               
gift certificate  is not  used within three  years, this  must be                                                               
turned over to the state.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO asked if the  issuer of the gift certificate                                                               
is  required by  law to  turn the  gift certificate  over to  the                                                               
state.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. LEWIS replied yes.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX  asked if  a consumer who  did not  wish to                                                               
use a gift certificate is able  to wait three years and then turn                                                               
the gift certificate in to Unclaimed Property for a refund.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. LEWIS replied that this is correct.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX asked whether this actually occurs.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS.  LEWIS  replied  that consumers  often  call  regarding  gift                                                               
certificates that  are not being  honored.  She explained  that a                                                               
phone call to the retailer typically takes care of the issue.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX asked if the  business has to turn the gift                                                               
certificate over, or if the consumer is able to do this.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. LEWIS replied  that the consumer is able to  turn in the gift                                                               
certificate.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
4:18:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO asked whether a  person who spends $300 on a                                                               
"lifetime  oil  change" promotion  at  an  automobile repair  and                                                               
service garage which  closed shortly thereafter would  be able to                                                               
turn this in to Unclaimed Property for a refund.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. LEWIS replied that this would not apply.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARDNER  inquired as  to  what  steps are  taken,                                                               
should  the merchant  decline  to cooperate.    In addition,  she                                                               
asked how often this law is enforced.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS. LEWIS replied that the first step  is to make a phone call to                                                               
the merchant  requesting that  the certificate  be honored.   She                                                               
stated that  in her experience, this  has worked each time.   The                                                               
next  step,  she  said,  would  be to  send  a  certified  letter                                                               
informing the  merchant that the  gift certificate  is reportable                                                               
as unclaimed  property, and  that interest  and penalties  may be                                                               
assessed.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR OLSON announced his intention  to hold bill until next week                                                               
in order for conceptual amendments to be addressed.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                

Document Name Date/Time Subjects